Interview with Dimitris Terzis for the Journal of Journalists
Ο George Stathakis is the head of the group of opposition party members whose main responsibility is the design of the new SYRIZA programme. This includes the anti-Pissarides plan which the opposition will make public in the next period once the plan itself is presented in its final form. He believes that this plan, parts of which have become known recently, is «retro and identical to the one that led to the crisis and prolonged our stay in it».
Stathakis is in favour of the full return of the state with a strong regulatory, economic and social role. On the possibility of elections, he assumes that these might take place when the health situation in the country is normalised and when economic normality returns. He stresses that elections are not won by denunciations but by creating a grand narrative that responds to the stakes of the time. He believes that the outcome of the elections will be decided by «the battle of ideas and the distinct strategies of the New Democracy and Syriza».
- The latest polls reflect the government's attrition and at the same time the people's anger and frustration at the government's handling of the pandemic. At the same time, SYRIZA seems stuck in the same percentages with little difference. What is your assessment?;
The government's first year of immunity has apparently expired. The government invested in the idea of a single pandemic wave and chose not to spend money on the economy and the health care system. With the second wave that strategy collapsed. Now it appears indecisive and erratic. So for the first time there is a visible weakening of the New Democracy.
For SYRIZA, after the first year of stagnation, which is logical, there is a positive addition. However, a large proportion of voters remain in between. They distance themselves from the New Democracy but do not identify with any political space. This percentage is important and I have the impression that it will decide the next elections. The vast majority of them are, I would say, centrist voters who voted for the New Democracy and are looking for an alternative. It goes without saying that SYRIZA is called upon to win over this portion of voters.
- In the minds of the majority of the world it seems that the government has failed to deal with the second wave of the pandemic. With its image hurt, there are already scenarios of elections in the spring. Do you think these scenarios have any basis and how does SYRIZA intend to deal with them?;
SYRIZA is obviously preparing for every eventuality, although personally I don't think the government will go to elections anytime soon. It makes more sense to wait for the health situation to improve and invest in the economic recovery and the flow of European funds. So, any possible government thoughts of early elections I assume are for late 2021 or later.
- The pandemic has changed our times, the facts and even the narratives globally. Adapting to the new reality seems imperative, all the more so since societies are turning to increasingly conservative options. Is an oppositional discourse of denunciation sufficient in the face of the insecurity and ambiguity experienced by society, or is more than that needed?;
Elections are not won by the denunciatory discourse, but by the positive stakes, the prospect of changes that will bring better conditions for the economy and society. In a word: the «grand narrative». Obviously, the stakes are different in every era. The Europeanisation of Greece and accession to the EEC were identified with the government of Constantine Karamanlis and Change for two four years with Andreas Papandreou. Kostas Simitis« »modernisation', a mixture of neoliberalism and social protection, together with euro membership, gave him an eight-year term. In the recent period the grand narratives have faded.
elections in Greece, for decades now, have been decided by a significant proportion of centrist voters, generally associated with the affluent middle classes
Kostas Karamanlis promised to tackle the escalating corruption and corruption and fiscal imbalances, and then came the crisis and the avalanche of memoranda, where obviously the political stakes were the memorandum-anti-memorandum, which brought the SYRIZA government. Today, I believe that the stakes are the prospect of long-term economic growth and the improvement of citizens« living conditions. It makes sense to test ourselves on more coherent »grand narratives" that give perspective and hope.
- You are the planning coordinator of the new SYRIZA programme which includes the so-called anti-Pissarides plan. What are the elements that differentiate it from the government's actions and characterize it as an alternative proposal?;
Look, the New Democracy programme and the Pissarides Report focus on the idea that investment will come from «less taxation, lower social security contributions, flexible work» and from strengthening the private sector in public works and pensions. This model is identical to the one that led to the crisis, prolonged our stay in it and obviously does not offer a way out. More importantly, this «paradigm» has been abandoned internationally.
The reasons are threefold. First, it has downgraded inequalities. Decades of growth have favoured a small part of the population, the richest, while wages have been frozen and the middle classes squeezed. The second reason is the state. The deregulation of the state led to the 2008 crisis and it was remembered to «save» the banks and private insurance funds. Today, there is a complete return of the state. Its regulatory and economic role is being strengthened, public health systems are being reinforced and the welfare state is being strengthened.
And the third reason is the change in the philosophy of economic policy. The «new monetary theory» that is dominant in economics has shattered the beliefs of Monetarism. Today central banks print money without limit. Fiscal discipline is abandoned and public debt is increasing. The same is true of wages. Biden promises, in the midst of the crisis, to double the minimum hourly wage from $7 to $15. So the world is on a different wavelength. For these reasons I think the Pissarides Report is retro.
SYRIZA is exactly the opposite of these beliefs. It wants strong monetary and fiscal policy, at European and national level, stable and rising wages, a regulated labour market and collective bargaining, a stronger welfare state, a major boost to health care and a sustainable and redistributive pension system. In short, it works on the idea that reducing inequalities and social cohesion facilitate rather than hinder economic growth.
Economic growth, and in this case the transition to a green economy, will be the product of public and private investment, supported, financed and clearly oriented towards the productive and technological shift of the economy, based on the highly skilled human resources available and upgrading the country's international position. It looks forward to completing the reforms in spatial planning, environment, justice and public administration that were largely initiated during his administration.
- For many, SYRIZA lost the elections because it lost mainly the support of the middle class. How do you plan to attract this electorate again? How will you regain their trust?;
I personally believe that elections in Greece, for decades, have been decided by a significant portion of the voters of the centre, who are generally associated with the large middle classes. SYRIZA is stronger among the younger age groups and the working world, and ND is stronger among the older age groups, pensioners, and partly among civil servants and farmers.
We will win over the middle classes with the power of the ideas that flow from our strategy. The middle classes are an integral part of our strategy for a just green transition, of the productive turnaround of the economy, of our idea for the revitalisation of the country's countryside and regions, of the tax reform that will make it fairer, they are part of the reforms that we propose for the benefit of the citizen and small and medium-sized enterprises. The battle of ideas and the distinctive strategies of the New Democracy and Syriza will decide the outcome.
